Odette D’Aniello 11:22
What did what what did it take to be a certified master baker?
Melanie Daniels 11:27
Um, for starters, and this is this was then I’m not sure I need to read up on the certification requirements. For starters, you had to have eight years of verifiable experience in a facility and industrial type facility, in order to even be able to apply for the program. So you know, at all, during my college years, I worked at a bakery, I worked at a bakery every summer, it wasn’t always my own. So you had to have eight years proven experience. Then you take a written test, a proctored exam, and it’s everything from managing a bakery, bookwork, sanitation, inventory, everything that you can think of this under your bakeries roof. After the proctored exam, you schedule a date for a practical exam. There are eight products that as the certified master baker candidates have to make on site in front of judges. Going into the practical exam. We already knew three of the products which we were going to make. So in other words, we could practice those all day long every day, right here in our shops.
Odette D’Aniello 12:53
What would that be?
Melanie Daniels 12:55
We did a cake. We were given a cake, a yellow cake formula, a whitebread formula, and maybe a cookie formula. I cannot recall. I’m sorry. So we could practice those. And be very well versed in what we were doing. When you get to the test Saturday morning, you’re given five more formulas. And there were at least, there was at least one that that I had never heard of. So William, what do we do, some of the formulas had no instructions. No Bake time. They were large formulas you needed to do the math to cut it down. If your judges were asking for just a two layer cake, then you needed to cut it down to just that. That amount of cake batter using Baker’s percentage. That’s a whole different ballgame. So for two days, a whole Saturday and a good portion of Sunday, we’re making these eight products along with other candidates in another shop in another location. You may not be familiar with the equipment, the temperature of the room, where the ingredients are, what the temperature of the ingredients are, or how much of the ingredients there are to share with everybody. And there’s limited supply.
We go about making our eight products. We have a whole staff, a whole panel of judges. You’re judged on how well you perform under these conditions. What’s your table look like? What is your is it? Is it a mess? Is it neat? Is it straight? What are your tools look like? Are they clean? Are you neat and clean. The ultimate goal is to make a sellable product for these judges. And you know if you don’t pass a product, you don’t pass that product. But you have the opportunity to retake that one product product yes, that particular one at a different time at a different site. Perhaps so You better be prepared to work. You better be prepared to you know it. It was tough, but it was great.
Odette D’Aniello 15:10
Which was not your favorite, which was your least favorite.
Melanie Daniels 15:16
hour I didn’t pass neither dad nor I passed it the first time. I’m not sure how many people do pass all a products the first time, I’d have to say the cake is my favorite. That was my favorite at that time to make. Éclairs were a little difficult. And although we do make everything from scratch here, the formula that we were presented, obviously was a different formula. And, you know, if you’re making your pâte à choux from scratch, it can be quite difficult.
Odette D’Aniello 15:43
So the temperatures in their ovens are not calibrated like yours. o
Melanie Daniels 15:48
Oh no, oh, no, they’re not, you know, for example, with someone, you know, another candidate or me, you know, if we burnt our cookies, which it was possibility, but you know, and you go back to mix more, there may not be enough sugar. What do you do, you know, this stuff and stuff, you know, if there’s not enough room in the oven, and your breads ready to go in the oven is proofed. You got to get it in what let’s talk to our other candidates, and it’s all about working as a team, as well as working as an individual. Quite a challenge, but certainly well worth it and something that’s um, this never to be forgotten. I can tell you that.
Odette D’Aniello 16:27
That’s awesome. So congratulations with that. Who issues that certification?
Melanie Daniels 16:40
Oh, the retail bakers Association of America. RBA. Okay. Yes, yes. Yes. And there are different levels of certification now, certified master baker being on the top. It’s like the all inclusive, and then you get a certified journey baker and certified cake decorator.
Odette D’Aniello 16:56
When I was when I was on the board of RBA. We, I was part of that. The whole group that talks about the cake decorating, I was in that committee. Very good. They were they also did the certification for master baker. I know they did. I thought it was another organization.
Melanie Daniels 17:21
RBA. And of course we’ve been we’ve been members of RBA forever for as long as I can remember. And as a matter of fact, my dad was on the board of RBA during the early 2000s. And at that time, the building in which we were located in downtown Goldsboro, it was what you would consider a like a strip center, a strip of shots. Well, the opposite end from our bakery, the refilling. Oh, and he was at at RBA meeting somewhere out of town. And I’d call and tell him, you know, we’re still standing by the other end of the building is not so we need to do something here. So we were able to stay in that location for the next two years until we found a piece of land and built a bakery. And lo and behold, when it was time to move into the new bakery, conveniently, he was at another board meeting. So we had do it all. I had to do at all.
Odette D’Aniello 18:27
How was it running a business with your dad?
Melanie Daniels 18:31
I was fun. Some of us who you don’t some of it, and some of us handle this part of it. And as a team, we work together and have gotten it done. Um, he did retire five years ago, sorry, three years ago, three years ago, but he does pop in every now and then. And I had about a five-year warning on the retirement. So he retired in December of 2019. Two months into his retirement, he had a heart attack. Three weeks later, everybody in the country went home for COVID. So in the first quarter of 2020, I shouldered a business, a not-so-healthy dad, and COVID and children at home doing school.
Odette D’Aniello 19:26
How many children do you have?
Melanie Daniels 19:27
I have two, one that I think probably will come back to the bakery. One I thought she would come back to the bakery. But I think she has other plans. We’ve got a high schooler and a freshman in college.
Odette D’Aniello 19:39
That’s amazing. So you are a sandwich generation you take care of parents and children. Yes. And a business. Yes. So how do you handle it? Like what’s your self-care regimen? Do you have one? Like, how do you manage your life?
Melanie Daniels 19:58
Well, I have a very right regimented schedule, of course, you know, early mornings. And the second one, and my brother does work with me, he’s the first one. I’m here early in the morning. But before I leave the house in the morning, you know, I used to pack lunch, do laundry, try to get some supper ready. So we would eat as a family and a reasonable hour. You know, once I’m here at the bakery, I tend to stay here, coming and going is not my thing. So I pretty much have to have it all lined up. Before I leave the bakery every day, I always know when I’m going to be doing the next day. Now, of course, we all know that can change. We always know what we’re going to be making. What orders are ahead of us, you know, if we’re getting trucks if we need to place an order for anything. So there has to definitely be some flexibility and how the day operates. But for me, I felt like I’ve made it run like a pretty well oiled machine, and then you just deal with the punches as I come. That’s
Odette D’Aniello 21:06
That’s amazing. That’s great. I mean, I think that as women when you run a business, and it’s just one of those things that you run along with your house. Yeah, along with all this other stuff. Right, that makes sense. That’s the big difference between running a business as a woman versus a man.
Melanie Daniels 21:32
I agree. I do think there’s a lot to be said, for, for female run businesses. And especially when you have customer interaction, which is probably my favorite part of the job, I’ve made a tremendous amount of friends through my customer base, and literally right over the counter. And there’s not always time for a great conversation, and it also has to be a quick conversation. But with that being said, I think the females in business can step up to the plate, and can get it done.
Odette D’Aniello 22:08
That’s amazing. And, and roll with the punches, right?
Melanie Daniels 22:11
Yes! roll with the punches, because like I said, you never know what’s coming. I never know what’s coming down the pipe. You know, some not every day is the same. So you just have to be able to handle it and deal with it.
Odette D’Aniello 22:26
What’s coming next. So what’s the big deal? What is coming next? What’s What are you looking forward to?
Melanie Daniels 22:30
Well, in the business, we are trying to enhance and grow our own line ordering. I will say that after being in business for 77 years, we are always on the back side of things are never on the forefront. We’re always behind the times. We are and that’s okay. But it has worked for a long time. We are not a trendy bakery. We just simply have never jumped on the trend bandwagon. And that’s okay with us. I think that’s what our community expects from us. And, you know, we are we’re your classic vintage, full one retail bakery. So with that being said, online ordering has been difficult. Nothing wrong with that. But online ordering has been difficult. You know, we’ve introduced the QR codes. And I’m just trying to get in tune with the next generation who lives life a little bit differently than I do. I’m not as technology inclined as they are, so to speak. And it’s just about tapping into a new customer base.
Odette D’Aniello 23:42
I totally resonate with that. And, you know, the, the fact that your business has been around for 76 years, and even if you say you’re not trendy, it’s really there’s a description for that in, in business and in people in life. It’s circumstance themselves. There’s such things as comet, right? They just come in shine, and then they fizzle stars. Yeah. And Mickey’s Pastry Shop is a star.
Melanie Daniels 24:15
Thank you.
Odette D’Aniello 24:17
I mean, really, a lot of the trends that come in and out. We’ve been in business ourselves for 25 years, and I grew up in a bakery business, they come in and out and you just think, wow, we’re left behind. But normally, you know, things just kind of fizzle out. You know, sometimes if the trend doesn’t. A lot of times trends don’t last. It’s your intention to do good in the community and to just run a really solid business and contribute to your community and your employees’ lives. That’s what matters.
Melanie Daniels 24:53
Yes, And we’re very fortunate that we have number one been in business this long and been able Church survive, you know, a lot of times a tough times, you know, in the 80s. You know, my dad was going to the grocery store to buy sugar because it was cheaper on the grocery store shelf than it was from our vendors. Also in the 80s, we saw the introduction of in store bakeries, your Bakeries, in your, in your grocery stores, and that was new to us. And trying to navigate through that. And stand out as a business who still makes it from scratch every day, versus opening a box and resell on a cake in a grocery store, for example, is how that’s how that started to that trying to navigate that was difficult relocating, you know, do we really want to continue to stay in business? You know, we’ve had this great location for over five decades, you know, that? That was a, that kind of weighed on me, do I really want to carry it on? Do we want to build a new facility? That’s over twice the size, which we’ve already outgrown mortgage,
Odette D’Aniello 26:12
The overhead?
Melanie Daniels 26:14
Right? You know, exactly, you know, how are we gonna pay for it, you know, you know that, that that was a big chunk. So, and then, of course, being able to, like everyone else, being able to navigate COVID We were fortunate when we built our bakery, we are the first thing we knew we wanted was a drive up window. And it’s great, you know, definitely paid off during COVID. People were either not getting out, they were scared to get out of their car, what have you, they were bored. First of all, they were bored. You know, they had all these kids at home, they were trying to homeschool them or school online, we need a break. So let’s go to the bakery to the drive out window. So that that was a bonus that really paid off. And that’s when I decided we needed to get into shipping, long johns, which we put in the grocery stores. And we needed to get into some online ordering. So we’re trying with online ordering is is trendy, but I don’t think it’s going anywhere.
Odette D’Aniello 27:20
I think that is the place to be. I mean, I think that the online ordering just makes it so that there’s less conversation in the bakery and less misunderstanding. Is that what you’re finding?
Melanie Daniels 27:34
Yes, I do find that less conversation. You know, here’s the product, this is what it looks like, you’re gonna get what it looks like as picture on our website. You’re not going to find everything in the online ordering as you do in our bakery, we still want you to come in and look. We invite you to come in and look, of course, but less conversation, less chance for error with the online ordering. That’s for sure. And we’ve found that more people want to come in and look and see what we have to offer walk in the door rather than order online. But I think in time that will change. Because of you know, the younger generations. They they like to do everything on their phone. Yeah, I still want you to do everything in person. Right?
Odette D’Aniello 28:23
I mean, it’s interesting, right? Especially through COVID with our kids are just already studying online. They make online friends, their lives are all online, and they don’t. I have I have young adults too. And the term that they that they say is touch grass. You know what that means? Like they have like, it’s time to touch grass. That means you go outside and touch reality.
Melanie Daniels 28:52
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Odette D’Aniello 28:54
Your bakery provides that, right?
Melanie Daniels 28:59
You’re right. We do and that’s what I was gonna say. Yes, we do. And, and I think since we are such a a homey vintage, been around a long time kind of place. It made people feel comfortable. During COVID And of course, you know, our busiest days are when the weather is bad. You know, we’re a place of comfort. Whether it be eating drinking a cup of coffee or great personal face to face conversation. We feel that that’s one of our our top stores because we’re going to talk to you.
Odette D’Aniello 29:38
I love it. Can you tell me a little bit more about Washington pie? I’m so intrigued.
Melanie Daniels 29:45
It really is all the leftovers. Doughnuts, cakes, cookies, pies? Anything? So it and it varies from day to day. It might have raisins.
Odette D’Aniello 29:55
You just put eggs into it like that’s it,
Melanie Daniels 29:58
Yeah, I mean, we gotta have something to hold it together. We add a little bit of liquid to it. And we have our pie dought obviously rolled out in the sheet pan. And we, we mix it up. Um, we have people to buy it. It might have raisins, it might have coconut, it might have nuts. You know it, it might have cinnamon. So the answer is if if Washington pie has something you might be allergic to. Is it in Washington pie? Yes. It’s in Washington. pie.
So in other words, we don’t have any waste. We have zero waste. That’s where our leftovers go. We also send our day old products to the local soup kitchen. And we have done that for for over, I’d say 50 years to the soup kitchen. So So zero waste here, zero.
Odette D’Aniello 30:53
When I was growing up in a bakery, I was the bread pudding maker where they take all the leftover bread. Yep. And you basically add, you know, you add corn starch to it. Sugar, you add cinnamon and times raisin, then you get it. Now in a bar and your bread pudding. When I came to the US, I was like bread pudding that’s like, let’s like the end. That’s like the end of life of the bread. Order it but like, my friends are like, my favorite thing to have is like, bread pudding. I’m like, why? Oh, it’s like, wow, bread pudding is fancy here.
Melanie Daniels 31:36
It is. I mean, it’s a no waste and, and just to turn around and and make some money off product that you are gonna get rid of, you know, brilliant. It’s done. It’s done pretty well for us.
Odette D’Aniello 31:48
The repurposed and what is it, it’s like a sustainable way of running a business.
Melanie Daniels 31:59
it is. And I tell you what the the folks that for whom the Washington Post was named after effects that are my parents age in their, their mid 70s. And older, they have a reunion here in town every Memorial Day weekend. And we always give them a whole sheet pan of Washington pie.
Odette D’Aniello 32:20
That’s beautiful. I love that.
Melanie Daniels 32:23
And they love it.
Odette D’Aniello 32:23
I love that story. I have to I’m gonna have to talk to you offline about Washington pies. Okay. Okay. I think it’s fascinating and, and amazing. So my last question is we’re ending this, this podcast, I wanted to know, if you were to talk to your younger self, Melanie, what would you tell her?
Melanie Daniels 32:49
think right now, if I were to, if I were maybe getting out of school deciding what I wanted to do, I think right now, in our day and age, I think it would be very difficult to go into business for yourself. You know, I was fortunate that we, we had a business, we had a name, we had equipment, and we had a loyal customer following. If I were going to go into business on my own, I would not I would really have to think long and hard about that. You know, there’s so many mistakes that can be made. Not that I haven’t made any mistakes, I’ve made plenty. But there’s so many mistakes that can be made that that you may never recoup from I would I would stick with if if I were going into the bakery business, I would not do the trendy thing. I like they just come and go too much for me. I don’t know that I would change anything about what I’m doing now. I’ve been at it for 26, 27 years. I don’t know what else I would do. There’s a lot I could do. But right now I’ve got my hands full. I’m doing all I want to do. If the next if the fourth generation comes along you know he might have some ideas on how to expand the business. Obviously, our grocery store market is wide open. And we’re fortunate enough to have the equipment to produce it to produce scratch products pretty quickly. So we can keep our costs low. But if you’re going into business, especially the food business, you need to you need to have a pretty good background and be up on the times about how to cost your product. Um, you know, for my vendors change on a regular basis and you have to be able to know how to to handle that so that you can stay afloat. Because you know who who wants to go under after you’ve worked so hard. I see you need to know what you’re doing. When I came back, both my granddad and my dad were big golfers, and they closed the bakery at noon on Wednesdays so they could go hit their one o’clock golf game. Well, that was not offered to me. At all there. I’m an athlete myself. That was not offered to me. They’re like, Here you go. Here’s the checkbook. I’ll be on the golf course. And I’ll be back at work tomorrow?
Odette D’Aniello 35:43
Well thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights. I really appreciate it. I’m learning a lot from you.
Melanie Daniels 35:52
Thank you.
Odette D’Aniello 35:53
I hope you have a great day.
Melanie Daniels 35:55
Thanks, you too. And just know that I’m willing, I’m certainly willing to help anyone or talk to anyone. We have always, here at Mickey’s, been willing to lend a hand. As a matter of fact, this week, I j’ve on the phone with people trying to our work on a piece of secondhand equipment that we got. So I think our relationship with RBA and RPIA is very open. We’re always happy more than happy to help in any way we can and and anyone is more than welcome to come visit us. Not now that we have a lot to show, but we would love to have you.
Odette D’Aniello 36:37
Absolutely What’s your email?
Melanie Daniels 36:41
You can find me at Melanie@mickeyspastry.com
Odette D’Aniello 36:52
Perfect! Thank you so much for being on my show and have a fantastic day.
Melanie Daniels 36:59
You too.
Outro 37:04
Thanks for listening to the Celebrity Gourmet Podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.