Odette D’Aniello 5:35
sorry to interrupt, but can you describe to our listeners what a petit four is?
Brooks Nguyen 5:40
A petit four is a bite-sized cake, usually ornately decorated. In the United States that are used for special occasions, typically baby showers, Mother’s Day gifts, Christmas, Easter. And I the wedding cake bakery that I worked for, had done a huge mail order business around seasonal products. So when they were offsetting their wedding business, they did mail order, and they do Easter cakes or Valentine’s Day cakes, which was I saw a whole niche there in holiday gift giving through mail order. So when I saw the petit four business, I knew it had potential. And it just happened the Gearheart was getting ready to retire. I asked him if he ever wants to sell. And he turned over his his kitchen space to me, sold me the equipment, and I paid them a small amount for his recipes. And that’s how Dragonfly was born. So I went through a whole rebranding of the product. And that was in 2004. And I ran the business for 12 years until until you came into my life.
Odette D’Aniello 6:55
That’s amazing. So it’s great that you mentioned Gearhart, because we were at a show, and someone said This is Gearhart’s product. I was like wait, that’s Brooks’s product.
Brooks Nguyen 7:09
He used to do a lot of German pastries. And he did stolen the a mail order. And then the little bit of the petit fours but he was he didn’t have a very big production setup. And so he was always really limited in what he could produce. And I knew that there was a huge amount of potential with the business and with the product. It had such a niche market for gift giving. And because it was frozen could be made in advance of a holiday and stored and which ship well because it was stored frozen versus a fresh product. So I knew he had so much potential that was just untapped in the marketplace.
Odette D’Aniello 7:55
So was the bakery the same bakery in Sausalito. It was at a new space.
Brooks Nguyen 8:02
So the bakery space in Sausalito. I took over from Gary Hart. And we expanded from there it started as one suite in that building and then expanded to two suites of the building. And at one point, we had three suites of the building. And the first thing I ran into was a need for expansion. Like within the first year, we wanted to add equipment, there wasn’t enough electricity. We wanted to add a new freezer space, there wasn’t enough capacity with the electrical panel and the other infrastructure pieces. So I learned very early on about the other pieces to running a business outside of actually creating cake.
Odette D’Aniello 8:47
So did you quit that job when you acquire dragonfly, or did you straddle both? What did you do?
Brooks Nguyen 8:54
I kept the sales job for as long as I could, for stability, but I didn’t make it long. I think I took over the business in September. If remember correctly, we closed in September. And I think I maybe made it to the first Christmas season. But with a holiday business, the winter holidays are the strongest for sales. So as soon as I took it over in September, it was craziness from September to January. And then by the time we hit January, we got into more of a retail cycle of creating holiday products. So we went from right from September into Valentine’s Day planning for Easter planning for Mother’s Day. And then by the time you hit Mother’s Day you’re planning for Halloween and Christmas. The over June July, August was the last month that you’re planning that winter holiday season. And that starts all over again. By the time you wrap up whenever is going to be sold for for Christmas, you’re already on to the next season.
Speaker 2 10:07
Right? Right. So you design. When you say retail cycle, that means holiday, the retail holiday cycle, but where your customers retail, or where they mostly wholesale? What was your? What was your business model.
Speaker 3 10:21
So we did about a third, a third, a third. So we did about a third of our business and distribution, which was stuff that was not specifically holiday that was going into grocery stores or bakeries into a bakery case, within about a third of the business and mail order. And the mail order business was really retail focused, they went direct to it was wholesale through a metal person who we dropped shipped for. So we would design with whatever catalog was requesting the product or them. And then we would ship it during the holiday season direct to the customer.
Unknown Speaker 11:04
Are we able to say pardon me saying that in or not?
Speaker 3 11:10
I don’t know. I wasn’t completely sure if we want to actually use names. It’s up to you really. It’s your business now. So the other third of our business was off of our own website. So it was really when e commerce was was kicking off. And food delivery was really starting to ramp up. I think the pandemic has changed ecommerce food businesses. But it was just getting started at that point.
Odette D’Aniello 11:41
And then also had an amazing like you had an amazing rebrand. Possibly because Gearhart did not focus on metaphors. But you had such a great presence. And can you tell us more about that with your partnerships with like, awesome people?
Brooks Nguyen 11:59
The rebranding actually it was just that came pretty naturally. It’s such an amazing product with such a distinct clientele. People who are really looking for an upscale luxury product, that the rebranding was probably the funnest part. Creating a logo, deciding what the name was, starting the website, and deciding what the feel of the product was going to be. And how to keep that marketing message the same and consistent through everything that we did to build the brand.
Odette D’Aniello 12:44
Yeah, I feel it was it was beautiful. And can you tell us more about the recipe book because I actually found the recipe book. Remember, I texted you a few months ago? No, was in the summer.
Brooks Nguyen 13:06
Oh, you mean the actual petit four books that I authored. Yes. So when I took over the business from Gearhart, I took his recipes.
Odette D’Aniello 13:17
That was I found it in the spring. And I texted it to you. I found it sometime because I was in California, in Beverly Hills. I found it at a kitchen store.
Brooks Nguyen 13:30
So the petit four book that we wrote was conceived long after we had already created all the recipes and really had a great brand presence. Ulysses Press called me up and asked if I would write a book just on petit fours. They had one on pies, they had one on cake pops, it was one cake box are very popular cupcakes. And so we did write a book. It’s called the Petit Four Cookbook. And we change the recipe we scaled the recipe so that they can be made at home right now because that’s one of the that’s one of the biggest challenges is going from mass production in a facility a kitchen facility that’s really made to optimize manufacturing, right into a home kitchen. So it took quite a bit of testing to make sure that the recipes came out the same and that people would have success making them at home the same way we did with industrial equipment. It was it was one of the funnest projects I’ve ever designed for. I mean, I still think about the time that we spent designing all of the different collections in that cookbook. And it brings me He’s such peace and joy just thinking about it. It was it was so much fun. It really was like a career-changing and a really needed invigoration and connection back to the creative process of making cakes. Because I got I got into the business because I loved the creative process. And I love having cakes to design and decorate and thinking about all the different colors. And that gets lost sometimes when businesses scale up. And when manufacturing, when you’re really manufacturing a lot of products, some of that joy gets lost. And that cookbook really reinvigorated me from it and put me back into a creative space.
Odette D’Aniello 15:44
Beautiful, I can totally relate. So tell me, what was the turning point after that you went from having three legs of your business, did they stay the same because what happens when a when a business scales is that you have this plan to have like 30, 30, 35, you know, or whatever. And then part of it takes off, a part of it like shrinks and next year you have this like three legged stool that bit lopsided. So that was that an experience either I’m just making the assumption.
Brooks Nguyen 16:23
was always a challenge balancing the capacity. It was always a balance. It was always a balancing act between managing capacity and managing the product margins. The profit margins are really challenging, each part of the business had a different profit margin, and had a different piece of the business that was labor intensive. So that that was always a balancing act. And when I came to the point that it was time to sell, we were at the point where we needed to either change facilities, reinvest in build out a new facility and grow to fill that facility, or make a change because we were at capacity where we were at. We were in a small, you know, I think we had to I don’t know what I 1000 square feet 3000 square feet. Yeah, we were in a small manufacturing facility. And we were using offsite storage to store everything. And it was really time to either ramp up and, and grow or make a change in our product offerings to maximize the profit margin. And that’s when I was like, you know, maybe it’s time to sell. And that’s when you came into my life.
Odette D’Aniello 17:41
That’s amazing, right? We so at that time when, when we found you, we were also in the middle of changing our business model, right, because we were doing a lot of retail direct to consumer. And we had, we are also looking into distribution, but was trying to figure out the model for it. And then we found dragonfly we met you were like she’s like her sister. Seriously, like,Oh my gosh, she’s amazing. But it worked out really well for us. So I am grateful. And I want to say an official big thank you again, because Dragonfly has been a gift and a blessing for us.
Brooks Nguyen 18:22
I could not have found a better place for Dragonfly to live on. You, your family, you just you embody all the things that made me really passionate about the business. You appreciate the creative side of it, you understand the running of a business. It’s really it’s not easy running a bakery business, the margins are slim, you’re at the whim of a lot of different price increases and price challenges. So it really, I can’t think of a better place for Dragonfly to live. I knew when I started Dragonfly, I didn’t really want to open a retail spot. The hours and managing a retail location with a bakery, I’ve seen other businesses do it, and I knew it wasn’t a good fit for me or my family, which is why I kept the business, mail-order and wholesale. Keeping the business mail order and wholesale allowed me to be with my family on the weekends and be with my family at night. And it was a life balance that was really important to me. And that’s really what drove my I chose to build the business the way I did.
Odette D’Aniello 19:46
It’s interesting as women business owners, that’s something that we were definitely are not aware of, or maybe not told to us when we’re in college and we’re succeeding and we’re, you know, competing and we’re doing an excellent job excelling in everything, and then you have children. And they need mama. And you have to make a decision. Should I nail this dream, or take care of my children? So I completely relate in that, you know, that’s, that is something that all of us women have, at some point have to face, right? In the work in the workforce or business ownership.
Brooks Nguyen 20:29
And I hit that early on in my career right out of college. In my first really major career role, there was a definite line, there was a definite line between being able to be a parent and be there for your family, and being successful at work. And that was 20 years ago, 22 years ago, I think that the workplace has improved, but it’s still a challenge for women to decide how they’re going to scale their career, how they’re going to be successful, how they’re going to continue to increase their earnings, and still be there for their family. It’s, it’s a really unfortunate challenge that I think women have to make. And I would love to say that it’s changing, it’s improving, but the needle is not moving fast enough. The needle is not moving fast enough that the decisions that women have to make.
Odette D’Aniello 21:34
Absolutely, and I think that it’s all these different parts of a woman’s life. Obviously, I cannot relate to a man’s life because I’m not a man. But today, I just listened to a LinkedIn webinar about companies providing menopause aid, or an offense for women, because menopause has been the leading costume into the the workforce. So not only is it child rearing, that decision has to be made. And then you have the sandwich generation where you have to take care of, you know, ailing parent, which we did, and I’m sure you have to. And then we’re taking care of your children along with the prospect of menopause after all this. What do we do as women?
Brooks Nguyen 22:32
Yeah, definitely, I’d say I mean, it’s really, it’s a challenge. It’s a challenge.
Odette D’Aniello 22:38
So the good thing about having a small business, though, I found is that you can make these we can make certain choices like, I’m going to stay mail-order, and wholesale, so that I can be with my family.
Brooks Nguyen 22:56
Yeah, I mean, I don’t regret any of those choices. I really feel like I saw a huge opportunity with the cakes, I had a huge opportunity to follow a passion that I love. A great branding opportunity. And I don’t regret making those business decisions. I think that being able to be there for those years with my young kids was completely worth it. I sacrificed a little bit on the earning potential. Running a small business is not easy. The earning potential can be really challenging, really challenging, the profit margins are so slim. But I don’t regret it for the time that I’ve spent with my family.
Odette D’Aniello 23:41
I love that it is very challenging, especially now with supply chain, all kinds of all kinds of margins being you know, shaved off here and there in order to scale. It is been an adventure, I must say.
Brooks Nguyen 23:58
Yeah, that’s almost another. I mean, there’s, we could look at this story in a couple of different ways, right? We can take it from the branding story. We can look at food, manufacturing, all the different channels that you can sell food within. And I almost feel like we need to do a separate podcast just on food after the pandemic. Everything in everything in the food industry, I feel has been really turned upside down. I think that the manufacturing capacities and the demands of the pandemic, anyone who was selling food mail order really was hit hard during the pandemic because everybody was stuck at home and want to order all the fabulous food for all the different reasons. They didn’t have another avenue to spend money there was a lot of disposable income there to spend on gift giving to spend on indulgences. Since people were at home and could use other services and and then I think the hit that, that business owners have taken in the cost of labor, and inflation and supply chain, the cost of food in general ingredients that that deserves its own, its own podcast, the post pandemic world of food manufacturing, is a whole nother whole nother segment that needs to be covered. Because it’s, it’s been intense. It’s been really intense. And I don’t think that we’re out of the challenges. I think that we’re just starting to see the cracks were already there in the food business. And especially in wholesale and in manufacturing. And I think that the pandemic, unfortunately, is only widened, those they haven’t, you know, it’s only made things more difficult, not easier.
Odette D’Aniello 25:58
And it’s a huge challenge for small businesses who don’t have the capital to get into huge distribution, that with all kinds of deductions, etc. That play is a lot. It’s it’s a major play, right.
Brooks Nguyen 26:14
And the cost of money. I mean, that’s okay, so So there we go. We’ve got like three podcasts subjects right there. We’ve got branding as far as taking over business. We’ve got manufacturing, and then the post-pandemic world of manufacturing, and then you have to look at the cost of money. Also, with with interest rates being as high as they are, and small businesses. It’s crazy in small businesses, especially food businesses are so undercapitalized. Small food businesses are extremely extremely undercapitalized. And they really feel the pinch when everything tightens up. Those are the businesses that really the small businesses that really get hit hard. And they’re also the businesses that make the food business so interesting and so vibrant. That’s almost a whole nother it’s a whole nother 30 minutes that we can talk about, the cost of money and what that does for small businesses and food businesses.
Odette D’Aniello 27:15
I think the whole issue of access to capital for women-owned businesses, minority-owned business, that’s an entirely different conversation.
Brooks Nguyen 27:25
Yeah.
Odette D’Aniello 27:26
A women owned, you know, people of color, PoC-owned businesses we’re the ones that shut down during the pandemic. There were language barriers, cultural barriers, all kinds, right.
Brooks Nguyen 27:47
And the PPE money when it first came out, there were no details around the parameters. So if you’re already undercapitalized, if you’re already part of a marginalized group, there’s no way you’re going to take on a loan from the government that you don’t know the details about. You don’t know if there’s an interest rate, you don’t know what the repayment is going to be. That in itself is a risk. So because the PPE money came out, and everything was going so quickly, none of the details of how that was going to be repaid were outlined. So for, for anyone who’s undercapitalized and doesn’t trust the financial system, or doesn’t have a strong financial footing, or wouldn’t have any other any other avenue to ask about that money. It was too risky. And so went to make it went to major went to major businesses who took the money because I knew that they’d be able to pay it back. I think that’s a big reason why I went to so many corporate food companies is that they were well capitalized to begin with. And so they knew that if they took the money from the government, they’d be able to pay it back one way or another, or would be able to access the resources to figure out what to do with that loan and have the loan forgiven?
Speaker 2 29:11
Absolutely. I think with with with that the PPP came out. It was it was literally, and a lot of the people who listen to this podcast, who are food businesses can resonate with the fact that it was a race to contact your banker to get in front of the line to get that, you know, to get the application in because you had to be connected. It was not
Brooks Nguyen 29:36
That’s a whole nother subject, right? You had to have a relationship with a banker. And if you don’t have significant money in the bank, you don’t have a banker. Right? That’s a foreign right. You don’t have a banker. So I mean, that in itself, is the first barrier right there. You have to have a relationship with your bank. And a lot of a lot of small food businesses don’t have that because they don’t have the money to have that relationship.
Odette D’Aniello 30:04
And then you have the full play of because you need the money, you start taking investments, and what does that look like? can afford legal help? Yeah, we definitely have a part two around, you know, finance and managing a small business, is there are a lot of people who are struggling currently in this current capital and capital, Ben environment, you know, there’s gonna be a lot more closures I feel like, just because access to capital has tightened so much. And I think it’s really out there that small food companies, Mom manufacturers are gonna bold. Yeah, how much it costs way too much to to be in this endless price. We, on the other side of customers who want to maintain margins that they might not even, you know, they have latitude, but they they’re trying to protect their interests. And then you have the middlemen trying to protect their interests, you know, ingredient companies were just completely, like upside down because of supply chain issues. I mean, it is, it’s going to be interesting over the next few years.
Brooks Nguyen 31:25
Yeah, I remember in 2008, after the after the financial crisis, I remember having our limits on our lines of credit, automatically reduce. Yeah. So I mean, banks unilaterally, if you have lines of credit with them, they can adjust them at any time. And, yeah, so to limit to limit bank risk in 2008, they just dropped all of the limit on all of their lending, so that their balance sheet looked better. And that’s exactly what’s happening. Now, with the failure of small regional banks, we’re in the same situation. So very similar financial climate, where banks are trying to limit their risks. And those with the least amount of opportunities are the ones that are that are impacted the most.
Odette D’Aniello 32:15
Well, stay tuned, everybody for part two is this. This is a completely other serious podcast, part two with Brooks Nguyen. But, before we end this part, I want everyone to know what you’re doing now. And then I have one question before we end the podcast.
Brooks Nguyen 32:42
Since Dragonfly I went back and got an accounting degree, because I really found that the finances of running a small business were what fascinated me, the margins, the profit margins, all of the financials that go into running a small business were actually what got me excited. And where I really felt like I could make an impact. And so since dragonfly, I’ve taken all of those skills that and do business strategy, and marketing, I work for a marketing company, and that’s what we
Odette D’Aniello 33:13
That’s amazing. Well, I am so happy we are connected. Because, you know, it’s a you’re like, why roads? Oh my gosh, this is what’s going on. Can you call me down? You’re like, all right. Everybody, you need a Brooks?
Brooks Nguyen 33:34
Yeah, so um, the company that I work for us called The Food Connector, and we focus on marketing and help people with their marketing and sales within food manufacturing, we specialize in food businesses. That’s really our sweet spot, good manufacturing, distribution. And so I’ve kind of taken all of my marketing work of dragonfly, my passion for finance and accounting and and now applying it to a marketing company, which I love. It’s a digital marketing company, thefoodconnector.com And that’s all we do is branding and marketing for food businesses.
Odette D’Aniello 34:17
Awesome. Well, I look forward to working with you.
Brooks Nguyen 34:21
Thank you.
Odette D’Aniello 34:22
So one more last question. What if you were to meet your younger self, what would you tell her?
Brooks Nguyen 34:34
Oh my goodness. What year what past self do I What past self? If I was gonna meet my past self, what would I tell them? Trust your instincts. Trust your instincts you know better than anyone else. Split the right path is I saw the petit fours and I knew that was an amazing branding opportunity. It turned into dragonfly cakes. I have nothing but joy when I think about it. I think that really, yeah, I think trust your instincts. You really can’t go wrong. That that your internal. Your internal discussion is probably right.
Odette D’Aniello 35:30
I love it. Thank you so much, Brooks. thank you so much for being a guest in for this amazing, very deep conversation. I look forward to part two.
Brooks Nguyen 35:43
Thank you, Odette. It’s been a pleasure.
Outro 35:48
Thanks for listening to the Celebrity Gourmet Podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.